On this episode of the Massimo Show,

Rod sits down with former FBI negotiator and author of Just Listen – Dr. Mark Goulston. Dr. Mark Goulson hacks people. He is a confidante, advisor, and coach to founders, CEOs and high potential rising stars. He is also one of the world’s foremost authorities on empathetic listening.

As a teenager living outside Boston, MA, Dr. Goulston was aware of anger and unhappiness in the world and began to wonder why it existed. He felt powerless against it and, as he would later learn, succumbed to it himself in the form of depression.

Dr. Goulton will openly tell you that aside from a 40+ year marriage and raising children of his own his largest personal accomplishment was dropping out of medical school twice, and still finishing. The school referred him to the Dean of Students (who cared about students, mind you). He told Mark point blank “you didn’t mess up, but you are messed up” and if he would be willing to get “un-messed up” the school would be happy to give him another chance. He went on to say that even if he didn’t become a doctor he would still be glad to know him because he saw something of value in him. Something that was not based on what Mark could or had done but on who he was as a person. It was this idea that people have intrinsic value just by being people that led Mark to become a suicide specialist and in 25 years on the floor not one of his patients took their own lives. A true testament to the fact that they felt seen and understood in a tremendous way. He credits letting go of his own agenda and allowing people to learn into you as a powerful listening tool.

In his talk called “Want to be more impactful?” he discusses what people are listening to versus what people were listening for. This disruptive form of communication was a different way to get results from the people interact with causing them to feel felt and seen.

This leads to the most powerful sales question you will ever come up with. Listen to find out! At the end of the day your best sales the technique is to get your client to open up to you about the true problem or pain point they are experiencing and once they have done so let them trust you to solve it. Dr. Goulston discusses the importance of trust, confidence in you, and earning respect as well as what he calls “The 5 Reallys” to get to the bottom of your potential client’s problem so that you alone have the insight to solve it for them.

Rod and Dr. Goulston end the show with the story, message, and power behind WMYST a national and international movement geared towards sparking joy and true human connection.


Dr. Mark Goulston

Mark Goulston

Dr. Mark Goulston is an authority on listening, and as such has identified some of the key questions to ask during the sales process.


  • Everyone is listening for something
  • Always be getting measurable results
  • How to make someone smile every day